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Understood, and I'm sure over the years Presonus have had to accept that design change is inevitable to keep a platform growing despite original concept and plans. That's what happens when products get in the hands of users who start pushing, pulling, stretching, and manipulating things in every conceivable direction.

It sounds as if adding more complex visual indicators (not function change) are out of the question. So yes, a new "1 to 1" instrument track type would also fit the bill.
Just to be sure, could you please clarify what you mean by, "Only 1-1 track to channel including buses"?

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by jpettit on Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:36 am
Current 1-1:
- Audio track to 1 channel
- Single out instrument to 1 channel

Current 1-many:

- 1 Polyphonic or S1Multi instrument track - many channels.
- Many polyphonic instruments MIDI in tracks - 1 channel
- Many polyphonic instrument MIDI in tracks - more than 1 channel.

- Buses channels do not have corresponding tracks with one exception.

- Folders do not have corresponding channels with one exception.

- The exception is a what I call a “Folder Bus” which has been there since 3.0 but not documented. This is when you assign a bus to a folder and you will get a Channel object that behaves like a bus and looks like a folder in the mixer.

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by Lokeyfly on Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:13 pm
Nice breakdown J!

I think this is what Niles was saying about seeing what the manual called out, and the other path as the discussion progressed.

Yeah, the folder bus could use some clarification in the manual, also.

In all honesty, I didn't get to revisit the issue, as it didn't impact my usage really to any degree other than observing similar OP findings.

Btw, I'd like to see your latest S1 signal diagram. I probably missed a Rev or two.

Lawrence wrote: Niles is right. This comes up every 6 months or so and the explanation is always the same. It was modeled after Cubase, arguably one of the three most used sequencers on the planet, and it works exactly the same way as Cubase's "midi" tracks + instrument audio output channels from the rack. Those channels are not 1-to-1, they are quite literally separate objects.




I think its best to leave other DAWs out of it such as Cubase. The midi channels in Cubase are obviously different. They even look, and are grouped differently. It's really pretty apparent in that DAW, but not so visible in S1. People will ask, as they come into using Studio One from time to time (especially Pro Tools users, that are use to the same part/channel relationship in that DAW). We both know S1 routes in a somewhat automated way, and personally, I like S1's approach very much. Barring it's extremely vague clarification.

Also, there is no this guy's right (nor anyone wrong). The observation is that the original poster along with others sees some different relationship between track mutes, to channel, so they ask. The S1 manual does not make that relationship so apparent, though a diagram would help. Until then, the question will rear it's head. If clarity were in the manual. It would be easier to steer inquiries to section X, par. Y, or detail.

The question re appears from time to time. I think I left off on this thread about 3/2016, but different iterations of this question do come up.

Maybe JPettit, with his very good signal flow diagrams can illustrate this. :thumbup:

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by Lokeyfly on Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:35 am
stevenicel wroteHoly Moly, .

If I have a track colour set to a redish-burgandy, it is almost impossible to see the other track view NOT corresponding when muting. In all honestly I have sat there for a half hour at a time wondering why I can't hear a tracks I've layered under an existing track, because they're muted in the "other view"! And vice-versa. And because this seems to only happen on instrument tracks I just kept assuming it was a periodic issue in random sessions.

This behaviour is frustrating and has caught me out so many times. I also wonder how many subtly nested "double layered" track sounds I've ended up muting out of a final mix
.


Hi Steve, as a visuall aid, always check at the bottom of the tracks where the global mute and solo indicators are. I think that could prove useful for you seing "some" instance of those mute or solo switches are on yet somewhere might be hidden. You can globally turn them off there as well. The mute convention in Studio One works though not readily apparent at times. Until that architecture is made visible, the mute relationship works pretty well once digested.

As to an FR, there are a few iterations of solo/mute functionality. Careful, as they may cloud this issue of the one to one mute relationship we are speaking about here. Those other M/S issues are about hardware mixer like conventions (deemed non conventional), so that's sort of a different observation.
Just a heads up, is all.

I'm sort of OK with all of this whole wonky S1 track/channel non mute thing, but my name was brought up (quoted) so here I am. :)
However I'm all for assisting and voting up an FR as, or if the discussion progresses that way.

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* As a suggestion, perhaps some pop up routing grid could be part of a next S1v4 feature. Viewed individually, or globally. For the individual view, you select a button on the track (or channel) to bring up its MIDI and audio path. The global view button would be located on the master section (or expand from Track view). Some simple routing structure or grid would do it.

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by stevenicel on Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:25 pm
HI Lokey / Et al,

I found the post again...(boy this website gets convoluted, or I just get confused way too easy). I couldn't even find where to click for my recent interactions list! :shock:

I've added an FR about "one-to-one" if you feel like taking a look. Again I'm not certain if I actually nailed the "description" of what I was trying to convey.

http://answers.presonus.com/24641/instrument-channel-relationship-option-create-instrument

After using S1-3 for most of the year now with a lot of different song productions, I can't help but feel there really is some minor improvements that could be made to the DAW's overall GUI interface, in regards to "apparent" definition and colour/shade logic.
Not more complexity as such, but just in the way certain things are defined. Unfortunately I can't help but feel that Pro Tools really did nail this particular element (sorry for the comparison, but it's important to articulate what I'm trying to say without comparison as such).

However, In keeping with what has been discussed in this topic, I really do find the solo/mute buttons contrasting colour choice make me have to work "consciously" harder to be fully aware of each buttons state, rather than just allowing the "logic" of contrast blending put my mind at ease while solely focusing on mixing and producing.
It's kind of hard to explain... It's not as simple as saying yes "green is go" and "red is stop" (unless your colour-blind). But there is something in SO-3's inherent contrast of colour choice that makes me "fight the screen" a little.

Early on I tried every possible colour tweak I could to get the best of all averages for me, but it's just still not quite there, if you know what I mean?

That said, I think a graceful solution to not being visually aware of relational track mutes being active in the track/console channel (as an example) would be to have a little visual (yellow?) dot right next to the main edit windows track mute. This would give constant and immediate reference for those who spend most of the time in the edit window, that there is an output relating to that track which is muted. This could be displayed for anything more than 1 effected output in the console.

I'm fully aware that colour choice is always highly subjective. However, that is my genuine, considered thought.

All the best everyone.

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by Jemusic on Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:51 am
What I have found on a few occasions is that if you have selected a track to be red for example and a red colour that is similar to the mute button red than it can be hard sometimes to actually see that a track is muted.

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by stevenicel on Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:54 am
Jemusic wrote...if you have selected a track to be red for example and a red colour that is similar to the mute button red than it can be hard sometimes to actually see that a track is muted.

Same here. And I believe an easy way to circumvent that problem is:
1. To have a fine contrasting lighter shade border around the buttons. (I think I remember posting a suggestion along that line on an FR somewhere).
2. Scripting that detects whether the track and button colour are too similar, and darkens/lightens the button accordingly in both normal / mute state.

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by amax55 on Mon May 28, 2018 2:04 am
sasarajak wroteNot sure if this is real bug or something I overlooked in settings in new version of S1 but it took me some time to realize what was the problem as it gave me hard time in mixer full screen not showing "mute" selected...

When I mute track I n channel view, it doesn't show in mixer view that the channel is muted and can not unmute from mixer and vice-versa... Really annoying

Here is the video of it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CSnnvUaI4Y


Hi sasarajak. I have the same issue. What do you know about Studio One ver.4 - they fixed this bug?
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by tarsonis on Mon May 28, 2018 7:24 am
Not really can add anything that have been said. Just as this hole channel track relation is a bit counter intuitive and stops ME from working quick and focused as I still forget it even being here since S1 V 2.0.
That most annoying behaviour is not been able to soloing fx returns without source been played. There is the shift solo thing and other stuff with x clicks ahead. I know for a lot of folks this is no big story but I found the behaviour counter intuitive in Cubase too.
Voted for the FR.

@amax55 not in the demo version I tried. Besides that subjective I got the impression that depending on the theme you choose the mixer gets cluttered / stressfull for the eyes in addition.

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by PreAl on Mon May 28, 2018 7:34 am
Useful to let us know what Studio One version you are running when you post.

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by tarsonis on Mon May 28, 2018 7:46 am
tarsonis wrote...
@amax55 not in the demo version I tried.


Sorry thought it's obvious. Demo version of v4. Not upgrading from 3.5 for now.

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by johndavis36 on Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:43 pm
I have a related but somewhat different question. I was perplexed while working on a song to find that many of the hidden tracks were playing again, as if a ghost had unmuted them. I think I've figured out is that when I hit global unmute in SO 3.5 and/or on Faderport 8 it unmutes the hidden tracks as well as the ones currently shown in the mixer. Is there a way that this can be avoided? Or do I have to unmute tracks individually to preserve the "muted" status of my hidden tracks? It's time consuming to unhide the tracks in order to mute them again. I haven't found a way to mute and unmute hidden tracks within the small vertical menu of tracks to the left of the mixer - that would be faster. I don't remember Pro Tools doing this with hidden tracks but I could be wrong.

Thanks for earlier posts on this thread, I have been wondering about those issues as well.
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by ionian on Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:31 am
I thought I was nuts. This bug has been driving me crazy. I can mute a channel in the console view and it won't display the mute in the track view and vice versa, but the track is muted. Meanwhile, Solo is always linked! No matter where I solo, the console or track view, the corresponding solo in the other view follows it. I was going crazy trying to figure out why a track wasn't playing. I have to keep both views open at all times, to make sure this bug doesn't get me.

Lol I'm coming from Sonar, which has a metric ton of bugs, some real head-scratchers, but Studio One seems to be able to match it strange bug for strange bug. I've encountered some crazy ones...this one, the one where Studio One completely undoes all my tracking before I save, pipeline refusing to pass audio randomly unless I delete the ins/outs and re-add them. I guess it's just a matter of having to learn a new set of bugs to work around.

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by tezza on Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:02 am
The mute thing got me as well, I've been using Studio One for some time and never noticed it because I was always using track headers to control mute and solo (using the mouse) so what you see is what you get. Lately, I got a Nektar LX61 keyboard midi controller which linked straight away to transport, faders, pots etc. I thought this was great so decided to use the LX61 while songwriting, that's when it hit me, I thought I was going crazy as well.

The Nektar buttons under the faders only mute the track in the Mixer, not the track headers (solo is ok). This is worse than useless when composing because I need the track headers to tell me what's happening and they don't. I use 70% instrument channels and compose using the arrangement view track headers, not the mixer which for me has little function until I come to fine tune. Then I use only the Mixer and don't need to see the track headers.

So the LX faders etc are ok for Mixing only but not for song construction/composing.

This means that hardware control of Studio One will not work for me when composing songs which is a sudden and unexpected major disappointment. Given that I've just had a taste of hardware control for composing that actually works really well for me (aside from the mute) and I really like it, I am going to push forward in this direction. I have Bitwig 8 track and Cubase AI that are going on to my DAW now to see if they are any different. I've also got to test Mixcraft with the LX.

I am sorry to say this is a major problem for me. If I cant get hardware control of mute on the track header from a midi keyboard controller in Studio One then I feel a DAW switch coming on for future songs.

I am trying to find out if the Nektar GX series Keyboard midi controller can be made to mute and solo on the actual track header, and use the pot on the keyboard to adjust fader volume on the track header. If it does, I will be in heaven for composing, I don't really need the pads and faders on the LX. I do like the linear velocity curve on the Nektar LX/GX keyboards.

For mixing I am looking at a dedicated midi mixer like the Korg NanoStudio to start with.

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by ansolas on Sun Mar 20, 2022 3:11 am
It would be nice if the user could decide teh behavior himself.
When using a cointrol surface I gets quite fast confusing when the channels on teh hardware show no mutes but the software

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by Lokeyfly on Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:01 pm
ansolas wroteIt would be nice if the user could decide teh behavior himself.
When using a cointrol surface I gets quite fast confusing when the channels on teh hardware show no mutes but the software

Muting tracks along with track routing is different than channel mutes in Studio One. It is not a one to one relationship as in PT. Still, the configuring is in many ways already there.

The reasons are in Studio One, tracks can be much more than limited to their own individual channels. Doing so would only open up having to additionally create sends, effect sends and such literal bus routing anyway.

It is what it is, but you're welcome to create a feature request. This thread has been running since 2016, so I don't see any Mute conditions changing. It's not a bug as the post subject implies.

Mmv but the separation between channels and mixer has a lot of advantages (as do both, depending on what one is used to).

Suggestion: Mute strictly your mixer channels to see the visual hardware and mixer software changes. Mute only tracks to visually indicate individual instrument tracks that might even be coming from the same instrument to isolate tracks. Typically, audio tracks are one to one anyway, as they are in all DAW's.

The global solo and Mute indicators at the bottom of the arrangement view will let you know something is muted, somewhere.

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