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Hey all,

I use the Pre-Fader mode with Sends to place an instrument farer away from the audience.
But of course, when changing the volume of an instrument, the Send Level / Volume Level ratio is changed. Is there a way to link the Send Level with the Volume Level, so that any change of either will keep the ratio?


Cheers,

Stevie
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by Skaperverket on Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:53 am
I'm not by the computer right now, and I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but perhaps you could create a bus and put it inbetween the instrument and the FX Channel? If you route the Send of the instrument Channel into the new Buss and route this Buss into the FX Channel with the reverb, you could perhaps group command and group the instrument Channel and the Buss, this way any change of either would change the other. Does that work?
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by _Stevie_ on Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:29 am
That's something I haven't thought of, yet. I'll check that and report back!
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by mikemanthei on Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:16 am
_Stevie_ wroteHey all,

. Is there a way to link the Send Level with the Volume Level, so that any change of either will keep the ratio?

I might be a misunderstanding the question but isn't that what post fader sends are for?

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by _Stevie_ on Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:31 am
Well, almost, but the send level is always dependent on the volume of the track. If the track is lower in volume, the send will get less volume, too. When setting the send to full level in post fader, you get a ratio of 1:1.
But you will never get a ratio like 1:2, which would mean, that there's more wet signal, than direct signal.
Using Pre-Fader is a great method to position instruments in a scoring stage. That's why I prefer using it.
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by Lawrence on Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:15 pm
Mike is right I think. If you're linking a pre-fader send to the fader level it's gonna act the same way as a post-fader send.

Both of the sends are the exact same signals from the channel, the only difference is that pre-fader sends levels don't change when you move the fader. If you make it follow the fader level, keep the ratio, it's the same thing.

The ratio is determined by the send level. If you need 1:3 ratios from aux sends, crank up the reverb return output (or it's input gain) and adjust things accordingly,
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by _Stevie_ on Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:57 am
I see what you mean. But what would I do, if I want to use the same reverb with a ratio of 1:1 and 2:1?
Of course I could use 2 reverbs to achieve this. But I was hoping that it's possible to use a single reverb instance for what I'm trying to do.
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by Lawrence on Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:17 am
Hi Stevie,

If you were to, for example, put a Mixtool after the reverb plugin on the return bus, making the return 24db hotter or whatever, everything going to it will be at at much more extreme wet balance. From there it would just be a matter of turning down the sends for things that you don't want at the extreme wet balance, if a unity send or a +10 send level isn't wet enough for the context you're talking about..

My reverb aux sends never get anywhere near unity gain so I can't personally imagine what a 25/75 or 20/80 dry/wet balance would be used for or sound like in a typical musical context. That would be interesting to hear if you can post a sample.

Try this for a shared reverb: Stage some group busses before the verb bus with different delays on them 100% wet. Delaying the sends by 50, 100, 150 ms, and send different signals to them before the verb. That helps. The problem with fake reverb is that everything going to it has the exact same pre-delay value which is not exactly how it works in the real world. Filtering those delayed signals with different hi and lo cuts before the verb also adds the illusion.
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by _Stevie_ on Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:21 am
Great tips guys, sorry, didn't have the time yet, to try it. Will report back ASAP!
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by _Stevie_ on Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:08 am
Hey guys, I finally tried out your tips. Both work perfectly! This finally solves an issue I had since ages. This now let's me put very dry libraries like LASS or VSL in a wetter environment, without adding a 2nd reverb. Thanks a lot guys!


@Lawrence, sorry, I didn't answer your question:

I mostly use orchestral libraries that have multiple mic positions to choose from (Spitfire, Cinematic Studio Strings, Symphobia, etc...)
However, there are still a lot libraries who don't feature that "luxury" like: LASS, all VSL, some Musical Sampling libs like Adventure Strings, East West Hollywood Orchestra (multiple mic positions are only available in Diamond editions). And some of these libraries are recorded very closely. So they are literally playing in front of you. Of course there are a lot of other tricks that one can use to put instrument further back on the scoring stage (VSL MIR, SPAT, or using 2 different reverbs for Early Reflections and reverb Tail). But based on personal experiences, I found that changing the wet ratio gives me best results without overthinking the whole thing.

I'll post a sample in a bit.
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by _Stevie_ on Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:58 am
I found a different approach that gives better results. There's a plugin called "Virtual Sound Stage" which generates
ERs according to the room position. This plugin can be used as an insert, which is perfect!
So, in case you are dealing with a very dry VSL instrument, you just put an insert of VSS and you adjust the send level
to your needs. This gives much better results than the dry/wet adjustment.

http://virtualsoundstage.com/
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by Lokeyfly on Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:15 am
Yeah Stevie, the dry/wet control is effective in crafting reverb to your needs (how ever versatile you need that reverb to be).

Without writing a thesis, :) that wet/dry control (Still all too important as a parallel wet/dry mix) might also contain from its reverb unit many other reverberant character, such as room size (obviously), or surface (absorption), reflectivity (waves bouncing off surfaces), etc.

So there's a few ways to arrive at what you need. Just my workflow, I like most everything on one send, as well (for continuity) but I'll create a 2nd send, at times, if that need arises like a subtle separation of one sound to the soundstage.

My only point as you are well on your way to reverb heaven is experiment. Post fade will always be proportional to the main, and parallel effect's send (if the effect send is also prefade). At times, a cool alternative effect that is handy, especially in film production is having one instruments reverb taper off at post fade, so that it purposely doesn't fade at the same rate. [One long decay out of nowhere] Not so great when attempting a real orchestral soundstage, because such a theater environment is pretty uniform with reflections, size, etc.

Try different reverb mixing paths, when the mood presents itself.

Have fun!!

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