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Hi,is there somewhere i can read(in simple terms) the differences or upgrades,between the Classic & A1 series mixers.
Also is the 16-0-2,closer to the classic or the A1 mixers.
I've rekindled my interest in a Presonus mixer,having heard one for the first time in a Live situation,last night,it was a 16-0-2 & the Vocal sound was clear & vivid.excellent sound(with an inferior PA system to the PA we use),i can't achieve that sort of Clarity,with our MixWiz.
Of course it could well have been the Wiz Kid sound guy,that was walking around mixing from the iPad. :D
Cheers,Graham.
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by mwright137 on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:19 pm
16.0.2 is more like the Classic 16.4.2 but with less features.

Here was the AI announcement: http://www.presonus.com/news/press_rele ... -AI-Series

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StudioLive 328AI (x2); AudioBox 22 VSL; BlueTube DP V2; FaderPort; Monitor Station; RC 500; Temblor T10.

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by PreSonuSales2 on Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:46 am
Scroll towards the bottom of this page. You'll find the side-by-side comparison that you're looking for: http://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-AI-Series/Compare-Models

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by grahamgarner on Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:18 pm
Hi,thank you for both replies.
I'm a bIt old & dim so :D, i'm still not clear on the differences in the 16-4-2 & the A1 series,so I think i'll ask my question in a different way.
I'm trying to convince myself,that i would get enough benefits(for Live 3 piece Band use),to change my MixWiz for a Digital format desk & because of limited funds,the older mixer is more affordable.
The features that really interest me are:
1:The ability to do a FOH mix via my PC laptop useing hardwired ethernet.(i usually mix from the stage).
2:The ability to do a Multi Track Recording of our Live set(Desk to PC).
3:The ability to PA & Room EQ(Smaart)?
I'm sure there are many other features the Band would benefit from,but the above 3 features are the main attractions(for me)
So my question is,will the Classic 16-4-2,do the above?
I think i'm reading that it does,but i'd like to be sure.
Cheers,Graham
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by SwitchBack on Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:07 pm
I can think of three reasons why the classic 16.4.2 is the better option:
- it's cheaper to buy
- it has FAT processing (EQ & Dynamics) on the stereo Aux inputs
- it has no (noisy) fan.

I can think of many reasons why the 16.4.2AI is the better option:
- it is built on the experience gained from the classic mixers
- it is future proof (built-in flexible Linux computer, replaceable option card)
- it is advertised as better sounding (BurrBrown ADCs, Studio One engine, ...)
- better integrated with the software (e.g. sharing track labels and FAT settings)
- integrated with the other Active Integration (AI) products (speakers, RM 'stage boxes', ...)
- full 24.4.2 FAT controls from the remote apps.
- and the list goes on...

Oh, and only the AI mixers (will) offer ethernet linking. The classic mixers are firewire only.
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by mwright137 on Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:18 pm
grahamgarner wroteThe features that really interest me are:
1:The ability to do a FOH mix via my PC laptop useing hardwired ethernet.(i usually mix from the stage).
2:The ability to do a Multi Track Recording of our Live set(Desk to PC).
3:The ability to PA & Room EQ(Smaart)?
I'm sure there are many other features the Band would benefit from,but the above 3 features are the main attractions(for me)
So my question is,will the Classic 16-4-2,do the above?

1: As long as the PC Laptop has FireWire. The Classic 16.4.2 requires a FireWire-connected computer for control and recording.
- The AI allows for control via WiFi or Ethernet with no need for a FireWire-connected computer but you still need a router for WiFi. Ethernet I think you need a router also but I would need to test to confirm.

2: See my answer to (1)
- The AI (currently) still requires FireWire for recording.

3: See my answer to (1)
- The AI (currently) still requires FireWire for Smaart.

I am Sir Melvis Bacon, Knight of BaconHam Palace.

Studio One 2 Pro 3.3.x (64 bit). MacBook Pro 13". OS X Sierra version 10.12.3.
RM16AI and CS18AI connected in Stagebox mode via MOTU AVB Switch.
StudioLive 328AI (x2); AudioBox 22 VSL; BlueTube DP V2; FaderPort; Monitor Station; RC 500; Temblor T10.

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by grahamgarner on Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:41 pm
SwitchBack wroteI can think of three reasons why the classic 16.4.2 is the better option:
- it's cheaper to buy
- it has FAT processing (EQ & Dynamics) on the stereo Aux inputs
- it has no (noisy) fan.

I can think of many reasons why the 16.4.2AI is the better option:
- it is built on the experience gained from the classic mixers
- it is future proof (built-in flexible Linux computer, replaceable option card)
- it is advertised as better sounding (BurrBrown ADCs, Studio One engine, ...)
- better integrated with the software (e.g. sharing track labels and FAT settings)
- integrated with the other Active Integration (AI) products (speakers, RM 'stage boxes', ...)
- full 24.4.2 FAT controls from the remote apps.
- and the list goes on...

Oh, and only the AI mixers (will) offer ethernet linking. The classic mixers are firewire only.


Thanks for the quick reply,so to control a Classic16-4-2 via my PC the only connection possibility is firewire,i've never used Firewire,would you mind if i asked for a bit of advice?
My computer has an S400 firewire socket can this be used with the 1394 sockets on the Classic?.
Can this be extended via Cat5/6?to say 60ft.?
I've read the remote ipad section of the Manual,it says to make an ad Hoc network,no mention of a router does the Computer act as the network,i'm lost with this.
I realise the A1 is a big jump from the classic,but for our semi-pro band,it's hard to justify,at least double the price,i know the RM reduces the cost by quite a bit,but the idea of having no faders etc.on stage,is terrifying.
If i can make Classic work for the band i'll get on board with that,then we all know where that ends up :D
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by SwitchBack on Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:29 pm
The classic mixer is S400 too but that's half the story. To check if your computer's FW interface's chipset is compatible you can check here. If not then a compatible PCI firewire card is your best bet.

the maximum length of a firewire cable is about 15 feet. Beyond that you'll need (expensive) repeaters, without guarantee that it will work for the rather critical mixer interfacing.

With the classic mixers connecting a computer to the mixer tru firewire is the only way to achieve remote control from iPads/iPhones/other computers. Up to you if you want to do that wireless (WiFi router) or CAT5 wired (ethernet router). The AI mixers don't need a computer, only a router or the included WiFi dongle, to connect to 'the rest of the world'.

Hope that answers your questions :)
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by grahamgarner on Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:40 am
Many thanks,for the help & replies.
I've been agonising about changing my MixWiz for a Digital Desk for nearly 6 mths.,i've almost lived on this forum & the Behringer forum(according to my wife) :D ,as well as a lot of checking out the
A & H Qu16.
I'm finding this the hardest decision about Band equipment,i have had to make,i suspect because i'm having a hard time justifying the cost of a new mixer in the £1500 price range,which is what i'd need to spend to get the sort of upgrade i'm looking for.
At the budget i'd be comfortable with,i won't be happy with the compromises,so for the time being i'm doing nothing,except keep on reading.
Once again thanks for your time.
Regards,Graham.
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by SwitchBack on Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:10 am
grahamgarner wrote... ,so for the time being i'm doing nothing, except keep on reading.
... and putting some money in the kitty every week. Read long enough and you don't need the band to make a decision ;)
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by grahamgarner on Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:12 am
SwitchBack wrote
grahamgarner wrote... ,so for the time being i'm doing nothing, except keep on reading.
... and putting some money in the kitty every week. Read long enough and you don't need the band to make a decision ;)


I've just about decided to go with a 16-4-2 Classic,when the right one comes along & live with whatever perceived compromises i may have to make.
So i've been reading the Classic section(instead of the A1 section) & somethings come up which worries me.

There are several threads about consoles "freezing" or "Locking Up",I understand all Manufacturers can have issues with reliability from time to time,which one way or another can be rectified,change components or a mod to a circuit etc.
I understand this is a Forum & the problem can look very magnified,but still a Console locking up on a Gig is something to be avoided(obviously) :D
Whats bothering me is there appears to be a lack of an official response from Presonus about this,just replies from other users.
So my question is,have Presonus issued a Service Bulletin or procedure to sort out any consoles showing these faults.
I'm not trying to do a scare monger post(these Consoles are very highly rated,even on other Manufacturers forums)but if there is an issue i just need to know there is a Manufacturer cure or solution.
I'm not sure if i should start a new thread about this,we'll see.
Regards,Graham.
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by SwitchBack on Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:08 am
Fair enough, and no, no service bulletins AFAIK.

This worry about the classic StudioLives, the 16.4.2 in particular (for being the first of the line) translated in one of the advantages of the AI mixers I listed: "it is built on the experiences gained from the classic mixers". No doubt PreSonus has made an internal note or two saying: "better not use brand X for component Y again, because failure rate is a few points higher than expected" or something similar. So in all fairness one would expect the AI mixers to be more reliable mixers than the classic SLs.

Having said that, what I think is happening at the moment is that early StudioLive adopters, who learned to work around the little quirks of the classic mixers, are selling for an upgrade. And the new owners of those classic mixers now go through the same learning curve, which results in a crash here and there for ignoring some of the written and unwritten rules on how to treat these 'audio computers'. Was to be expected.

So it is good to know, shoud anything go south, that PreSonus has a very good fixed bench rate repair service. It also used to come with a one year warranty extension after repairs. Not sure if that still applies for second owners/ discontinued products but I would expect it does. Maybe someone from Baton Rouge can chime in to confirm?
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by summitcn on Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:42 am
I owned (but upgraded to AI) a classic 16.4.2, and never had an issue with it. It was a solid mixer, and nice to work with. After upgrading to the AI however, I immediately noticed the improved sound quality. It is a good step up from the classic mixers, and that alone is worth the upgrade IMO.

On top of this there are all of other nice additions. You won't regret getting the AI and it will allow you to expand within the current series as well, by linking additional mixers, adding an RM as a stage box etc.

-Scott
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by grahamgarner on Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:15 am
SwitchBack Quote:
Having said that, what I think is happening at the moment is that early StudioLive adopters, who learned to work around the little quirks of the classic mixers, are selling for an upgrade. And the new owners of those classic mixers now go through the same learning curve, which results in a crash here and there for ignoring some of the written and unwritten rules on how to treat these 'audio computers'. Was to be expected.

I've 95% decided to buy a 16-4-2 Classic,could you give me a few pointers to the written & unwritten rules i should be attending to.

I have no idea how service from Presonus is handled in the UK,but i'll find out as i go along. :)
Cheers,Graham.
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by SwitchBack on Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:51 am
OK, I may think of one or two more but here are what I consider the most important do's and don'ts:
- Avoid ground loops. Easiest way is to power everything from one wall socket. Im most cases that means running a power cable from the stage to the mixing position (together with the snake).
- Make sure that your firewire interface is compatible with PreSonus interfaces
- Make sure that your computer is prepped for DAW use
- Observe the instructions for updating the mixer firmware
- Plug in mixer mains, computer mains and firewire cable before power on
- First switch on the mixer, and allow it to complete boot up (!)
- Then switch on the computer and allow it to complete boot up
- Amps last (common sense)
- Take precautions against static electricity. A little bit won't harm but those hefty jolts may. Better safe than sorry.

That's it. Mostly common sense me thinks :)
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by mwright137 on Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:11 pm
SwitchBack wroteOK, I may think of one or two more but here are what I consider the most important do's and don'ts:
- Avoid ground loops. Easiest way is to power everything from one wall socket. Im most cases that means running a power cable from the stage to the mixing position (together with the snake).
- Make sure that your firewire interface is compatible with PreSonus interfaces
- Make sure that your computer is prepped for DAW use
- Observe the instructions for updating the mixer firmware
- Plug in mixer mains, computer mains and firewire cable before power on
- First switch on the mixer, and allow it to complete boot up (!)
- Then switch on the computer and allow it to complete boot up
- Amps last (common sense)
- Take precautions against static electricity. A little bit won't harm but those hefty jolts may. Better safe than sorry.

That's it. Mostly common sense me thinks :)


To add to this:
- Run your mixer on a good power conditioner/voltage regulator. Digital equipment likes good power.
- Run your mixer and router on a battery backup to avoid dropouts that cause them to lose sync. Even a "brown-out" can wreak havoc. You never know how good the power at a club is, so make it better.

I am Sir Melvis Bacon, Knight of BaconHam Palace.

Studio One 2 Pro 3.3.x (64 bit). MacBook Pro 13". OS X Sierra version 10.12.3.
RM16AI and CS18AI connected in Stagebox mode via MOTU AVB Switch.
StudioLive 328AI (x2); AudioBox 22 VSL; BlueTube DP V2; FaderPort; Monitor Station; RC 500; Temblor T10.

To add your software and hardware specs to your signature to make it easier for us to help you, click HERE.

My Website
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by grahamgarner on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:26 am
SwitchBack & mwright,thanks for the do's & donts,& advice.
As you said a lot of common sense,most of which i already carry out with our present stage set-up,i've never used conditioners in a live situation,but we have no digital equipment(except my newly aquired Boss GT100).
mwright i'm not familiar with the term "brown-out",i also think our mains system in the UK is probably more forgiving,but i still pretty much set-up as SwitchBack recommends.
I am now actively looking for a 1 owner carefully used low mileage :) 16-4-2 Classic.
Cheers,Graham,
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by SwitchBack on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:30 pm
Good luck finding one. These mixers are fun to work with :)

Oh, and I did think of one more do: Give the mixer room to breathe. There's no fan inside, which is nicely quiet. But it also means that cooling relies on natural convection. So don't block the vents and leave a gap for air to flow across the bottom of the mixer (where the PSU lives).
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by grahamgarner on Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:22 am
SwitchBack wroteGood luck finding one. These mixers are fun to work with :)

Oh, and I did think of one more do: Give the mixer room to breathe. There's no fan inside, which is nicely quiet. But it also means that cooling relies on natural convection. So don't block the vents and leave a gap for air to flow across the bottom of the mixer (where the PSU lives).


SwitchBack,do you mean the desk can't sit on it's base?from the photos i've seen it appears that it has a flat base with a raised connection area,with vents in the side.
With our MixWiz,i sit it on top of an equipment rack,would this not be suitable for the Classic?.
Finding a desk isn't a problem,finding one within my budget is the tricky bit,there's quite a few knocking about for not much less than their new price,with the odd one priced right,that go really quick,but i'll be patient.
Once again thanks for your help,.
Just thought of 1 more thing,am i correct that the software gui(U.C.?)for this model won't open without a desk connected to the computer?
Regards,Graham.
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by SwitchBack on Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:09 am
The bottom of the mixer has two ridges. New the mixer comes with two rubber strips you have to stick onto those ridges. That gives the mixer about 1/4" clearance when placed on a hard flat surface, which is fine. But placed e.g. on a heavy rug the gap is gone. Another way to accumulate heat is to leave the mixer in the snug fit bottom shell of a hat case. Not a good idea to use the mixer like that in a hot room. A rack shouldn't be an issue, even with power amps in the bottom, as long as air can move through easily.

UC's small control window will open with no mixer attached but VSL (the mixer control GUI) won't. Be patient ;)

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