Question

[metalkobra]

So I recently got a new cab, Randall MTS series with XLR "mic eliminator" so one does not have to physically mic the cab...Works great, but when I record with said set up, for some reason it sounds boxy and airy I guess would be the best way to describe it...Does anyone have any suggestions to help get rid of that?

I'm not sure if it's due to the firebox or due to something else...:confused:

[GuitarOfGold]

When you plug in direct from an amp, you are bypassing the only acoustic element an electric guitar has - the amp's cab. It's basically the same result as running your guitar through an amp head only. In fact, that's exactly what it is. You also losing any additional tone a particular mic may add to your tone quality. Your cab is probably a bigger factor in tone quality than your amp's electronics (although both are important). Adds a lot of "fatness."

[ORNATE]

youre best bet is still going to be to mic the cab itself bro.
the cab will definitely give the track a lot more power.

[metalkobra]

Alright guys, thanks. I play primarily black metal/death metal. Would you suggest the norm for micing which is two 57s? or would you suggest something different? All I have atm is a 58 and the XML condenser that came with the firebox package.

[GuitarOfGold]

SM57s are pretty common on guitar amps. I think SM58's will work. If I'm not mistaken, they're almost the same. The condenser may work as well. I prefer condensers over dynamics for amps, but that's just me. For metal, a condenser might work better, as they tend to bring out more highs and not so many mids. (That of course depends on the mic and it's placement.) Experiment, and see what you like best.

You'll also want to do a forum search on mic technique/placement, because the way you position your mic to the amp's speaker can have drastic effects over a matter of inches; you really have to know what you're doing to get a good sound out of it, no matter what mic you use.

[metalkobra]

I was thinking condensers myself, belphegor's recording sessions typically use them and I love their tone so I may go for a pair of em.

I actually perfer more mids I used to be all about treble but over time and tweaking amp settings I've come to love mids with highs at about 4ish.

I've seen some cabs miked with one mic per speaker like both top speakers are miked seperately rather than two mics on one speaker, what advantage does that offer? I would have assume more spread out sound perhaps?

[Dulcimerist]

The SM58 might be your best bet of the mics you've got. It has a high SPL rating, which is nice for using on an amp. What's the SPL of your MXL condensor?

As for mic placement, do some experimentation to find what sounds best for your application.

[GuitarOfGold]

I've seen some cabs miked with one mic per speaker like both top speakers are miked seperately rather than two mics on one speaker, what advantage does that offer? I would have assume more spread out sound perhaps?

It can, but you can do that with a single speaker in an amp (and I've done it). What's more than likely going on is that for any given amp, there's going to be one speaker that sounds better than the others, and the engineer is capturing them all at the same time so he/she can decide what's best later on. It's unlikely (though not impossible) that all of them are being used in the final mix.

[metalkobra]

The max SPL on my MXL is 130dB, it's the V63M, I've recorded vocals with it and it's amazingly clear honestly, I tried to mic my cab with it, but it's shape makes it very hard to do lol.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fostex-MC10ST-Hypercardiod-Condensor-Microphones-Pair?sku=270336

I'm actually thinking about ordering those, it's a great deal and has great specs IMO. Although condensers are typically used for recording acoustic work, I find they bring more clarity than a 57 or 58, but a 58 will give more punch I believe.

[Musepro]

Most, if not all, cheap condensers are going to sound horrible on over driven guitar amps. The Fostex models you're considering are basic Chinese OEM types that are sold by a few other companies, Superlux being one of them. I've used them....no good.

Here are a few things to look in to. SM57s, IMO, sound pretty awful on guitar. They're popular because 30 years ago they worked great, everyone started using them and now everyone has it in their mind that this is what a miced guitar is supposed to sound like. Though sometimes the 57 is just right, there are better options these days for the most part.

For a 57 feel but with a smoother sound, try the Audix i5. They're around $99 new, but you can find them on eBay for maybe half that. They're very durable and sound good.

If you can afford more, go for a Sennheiser 421. Fat, warm and smooth, they'll keep the highs from getting too raspy while still capturing all the mids and high end you want. They're around $350 new, or buy used.

Finally, if you can afford it, the Audio-Technica 4047 large diaphragm condenser is stellar on guitar amps. Larger than life, balanced, natural. I own a pair and use them on guitar amps more than any other mic. They can be had for about $500 each, new.

If your primary concern is to record great guitar tones, it's worth buying the good mics. Buying low dollar condensers is a waste of money. They may work _ok_ on acoustic guitar or cymbals, even then they'll be pretty bad, but there are certainly better options for metal guitar amps.

[metalkobra]

I'm actually on a bit of a budget being jobless at the moment haha, I found the i5's for 85 on ebay, so I could get two for 170 which isnt too bad.

For now I'm just recording things out of my room, but I plan on going to mediatech in austin soon and gettin schooled in the right ways.

My primary concern is indeed recording great tones, but I like to have a balance between great and cheap lol. I'm sure if i got more expensive ones now it would be better in the long run, but I need to save my cash. So I may go with the i5s...

[metalkobra]

I listened to some audio clips that included the 421 but it had a sennheiser e609 which sounded VERY good to me had great mids and subtle highs, the SM58 has very good low/low mid, so i think I may go with a 58/e609 and I think with figuring out placement those two paired together would be a very good ranged sound IMO.

[Juice]

i just got done recording some metal guitars. i placed a e609 on the bottom left speaker so that the element was in the same plane as the cone of the speaker, then placed a CAD E-100 condenser on the upper right speaker flat with the face of the cab a couple inches form the grill.

each mic by itself sounds like something is missing, but the 2 together sound absolutely amazing. nice fat, clear sound. love it and recommend to anybody i can!

[metalkobra]

i just got done recording some metal guitars. i placed a e609 on the bottom left speaker so that the element was in the same plane as the cone of the speaker, then placed a CAD E-100 condenser on the upper right speaker flat with the face of the cab a couple inches form the grill.

each mic by itself sounds like something is missing, but the 2 together sound absolutely amazing. nice fat, clear sound. love it and recommend to anybody i can!

Any chance I could hear it? wouldn't mind listening before I make a purchase!

[Juice]

let me get it from cd onto my comp (its stored on an external hd at the sudio)
and posted up on myspace for you to listen to.

[Juice]

Myspace.com/d a m n itjuice (http://www.myspace.com/****itjuice)
there you go. the stuff is pre production demos, completely raw tracks, and minimal time spent on adjusting levels. also, some stuff only has guitar on one side in some parts. the amp set up used was a line 6 hd 147 head, w/ a marshall mode 4 cab. guitar was a ibanez 7 string w/ and emg in the bridge. i believe he also had a BBE 362 sonic maximizer in the rig too.

if you want the .wav files pm me your email address and i can send them that way


edit: darn filters..... myspace.com/ d a m n itjuice
let see if that works

[metalkobra]

Alright, cool :). I'm going to be recording my friend this weekend actually, he does acoustic and tbh I think recording acoustic stuff will be a lot easier than amps haha. I'll most likely use my V63M to do it. I'm probably fixing to order another dynamic mic to pair with it. Dunno how a 58 would sound on an acoustic =/.

[Juice]

heres a link to the CAD e100 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/CAD-Equitek-e100-Condenser-Microphone?sku=271260) that i used. flip on the pad switch and crank the guitar!

[metalkobra]

Very nice, I'll probably have to wait until I can find a part time job around here before I could even think about getting that CAD haha.

I think if I get the 609 and use the V63M i'll get something good out of it. I need/want to sell my firebox though and get a firestudio.

I also need to get some soundproofing things too =/. I might actually just get a really thick blanket and cover the cab and mics with it.

[Juice]

i wouldnt cover the cab with a blanket, try placement and the sound of the room first. putting a blanket over a bass drum is a good idea, but not a guitar cab.

[metalkobra]

Well i'm doing it in my bedroom so you can imagine the room sound lol. I'm also considering building a iso box for the cab. I gotta think of something, cause I know I wont get good sound from here. I get somewhat of a dull boxy sound from my room.