firestudio project and macbook

[mrtmills]

Hi,

If I am repeating something I apologize. It seems that the problem with the new macbooks (oct 07) is that they have an Agere chipset in the firewire card which is incompatible with most presonus equipment. Other major interface companies are having similar problems. I have not found a solution and I do promise that whoever decides to take responsibility will not be working overtime on the issue. This appears to be a larger issue than I previously thought; I thought it was just the operating system.
Any thoughts?

[Jon Ward]

It seems that apple figures that the Agere chipset is cheaper. And it gets worse, rumor is that as of January 08 all new Intel Macs will ship with this configuration. I am trying to get this confirmed, but we all know how challenging it can be getting any information about apple hardware. I am trying to find a way around the Agere problems, but no luck so far. :mad:

[mrtmills]

Thanks for looking into it. If you get anywere let us know as apple does not take back computers unless they are physically broken.

[BnB Studios]

Does this mean that the Firestudio will never work with a macbook or macbook pro?

[mrtmills]

I may not be fully informed but I feel I have been on this issue as much as anybody. The macbook (not sure about the pro) is now being shipped with the new Agere FW chipset. There is apparently - although presonus has not explicitly stated - an unfixable problem with presonus' gear and this chipset. With the pro there is at least a slot for an external card which may allow the user to bypass the native chip, there is no such option with the macbook. So, because nobody will answer my question about the Agere chipset I am assuming the worse. I have been on this issue for well over a month with no progress. Because I have nothing to lose by stating it, I will say what nobody else will:

Presonus is not going to fix the Agere chipset problem. If you have a new macbook and a FSP specifically, get rid of them, or at least one of them. If you feel like waiting for apple to do something, you will never get to record music. I am trading my new macbook for an older one of the same specs, I feel this is mostly apples fault and they have lost a customer of future products.

[three_eyed_otter]

do you guys know if this will be a problem with an Intel 2.4 Imac?

I am searching for new hardware and was thinkiing about chaining two F-studio Project interfaces together w/a new Imac 20". TIA

have a good one
3Eo

[thrasher32]

So Apple charges 50-100% more for their pc-comparable hardware and then they go for the el-cheapo firewire chip? How much can the Firewire chip cost anyways? $5 tops? $10 for a good one?

Apple booooooo

Umm, Firestudio Projects do *NOT* daisy chain at this time...

[syd]

I just want to know what's happening. Here's how it's impacting me, and a lot of other people: I'm waiting...for something. I don't mind waiting. What I do mind is not knowing what I'm waiting for. In the end, one of three things is going to happen...

1. Presonus is going to ship new Leopard drivers that will make my FS work with my new Macbook.
2. I'm going to buy a new audio interface, because the FS isn't faithful to the IEEE 1394 protocol and I can expect it to give me problems with my Macbook, and other computers I might use it with.
3. I'm going to buy a new computer, because my Macbook isn't faithful to the IEEE 1394 protocol and I can expect it to give me problems with my FS, and other interfaces I might use it with.

What I want to see is a debate, with finger-pointing. I want to know who's at fault, so that I can stop waiting on *them* and move on.

[syd]

I should mention that I did spend my lunch break on the phone with Apple a few days ago, getting as far as "product specialist," who couldn't tell me if there was an Agere chip in my computer or not.

I wanted to hear "we're aware of the issue, and we're working on updating the drivers..." but all I got was that yes, Apple is still committed to pro audio users, and they're not using these chips because they don't care, and simply writing off this chunk of the market.

He said that when I get the drivers installed, they'd like to have me capture some data for their engineers to take a look at. I'm perfectly willing to help them in their R&D processes for the next revision, but I'm going to demand my money back for this Macbook if they're not going to be able to replace my mobo with one that has a working firewire interface. You don't sell a product while claiming FW400 is supported if it can't possibly be made to work reliably with FW400 devices. If they're going to point the finger at Presonus, and claim that it's the fault of the drivers, then I want Presonus and Apple working together, or I'll find a company that *will* work with Apple so that I can record audio on a Mac. Of course, I can leave Apple too, but I want to know who's at fault.

[mrtmills]

From what I have found, apple is pointing at presonus and visa versa. When I was waiting on the phone for 2 hrs on many a lunch break I was told by apple that presonus is a third party product which they do not suppot. Apple also had no idea what I was speaking of and neither did their "specialists". They did, however, inform that they would not take back my computer for there was nothing wrong with it on their end. I was given a case worker who sounded nice at first and as soon as he found out I wanted to return it he stopped answering my calls. My advice to anyone reading this thread is to abandon the computer if you can and the FSP if you have no choice. All computers are the same these days; bells and whistles and bubbles and mostly crap. They should all do the job.

As far as presonus' position on communicating with apple, well I would not bet on anything. Although the presonus people have been honest and friendly I would say they are not in control of this situation. Most of the replies I recieved where sluggish and somewhat woebegone. The average response I found was "We probably will not be able to fix that, apple really did us in" - or something of that nature.
I would love to hear some more people's experiences with the new macbook, especially if you have one that works.

thanks

[egold]

You know I returned my fsp for a few reasons, First I really wanted it to work. I heard such good things about it and it does sound nice, however I also read here how long it's taken presonus to come out with vista drivers. When I talked to tech support they said apple was working on new drivers for them and would be out by the end of the month. So, I was thinking to myself , why does presonus have to have apple make there drivers can't they make them themselves? Why are people who own alesis and motu not having issues with the mcp's and the so called new firewire chip set? preamps, transistors wires chips and the rest make up everyones product it's the firmware and drivers that make each product work something I dont believe should be left to a 3rd party but to the companies own engineer's and development team. The main reason I returned my fsp was everyone else's seems to work. Just my 2 cents worth from a guy who wanted his fsp to work

[mrtmills]

What did you return it for? I am having trouble finding anything remotely silimar to the FSP in quality/price. Good job for having the balls to do something about it. Just think what our grandparents would have done.

[Ben Mullens]

1. Presonus is going to ship new Leopard drivers that will make my FS work with my new Macbook.

If the Agere Chipset that Apple is now using is indeed the cause of the issues you are having, there is no driver that will correct a hardware compatibility issue with that Firewire Chipset. I believe Agere/LSI would be the only one who could possibly correct it.

2. I'm going to buy a new audio interface, because the FS isn't faithful to the IEEE 1394 protocol and I can expect it to give me problems with my Macbook, and other computers I might use it with.

All Firewire interface companies will suggest (and some will even require) the use of certain Firewire chipsets. RME does, MOTU does, and so do many of the other interface companies. It's like Engine companies requiring specific oil for certain engine models. If you use the wrong oil, the engine could perform under spec, and may not even work at all.

3. I'm going to buy a new computer, because my Macbook isn't faithful to the IEEE 1394 protocol and I can expect it to give me problems with my FS, and other interfaces I might use it with.

It's a shame that Apple is trying to cut costs with the Macbooks. Many people have relied on those laptops for audio recording for years. We're still trying to confirm the issues with Agere chipset, as it doesn't always affect the interfaces and it can be random.
Hopefully Apple will give our developers more insight into the situation with those chipsets. Until then, I'd watch out for the Agere firewire connections.

[egold]

I bought the alesis IO26. Its worked fine and was a bit less than the motu. It doesnt exactly have the firecontrol interface but does have 8 separate outputs. Interesting response Ben. I agree each has there own oil the engine runs better with but yours seems to to be the only one with issues right now and taking such a long time to come out with new oil some would make a trade in first I would think not to mention doesnt do well for future sales

[TimOrr99]

I'm really disappointed in the direction that this thread is taking.

1. Presonus is going to ship new Leopard drivers that will make my FS work with my new Macbook.

If the Agere Chipset that Apple is now using is indeed the cause of the issues you are having, there is no driver that will correct a hardware compatibility issue with that Firewire Chipset. I believe Agere/LSI would be the only one who could possibly correct it.


If this is true, then Somebody has a "defect in materials and workmanship" which should be covered under warranty.


2. I'm going to buy a new audio interface, because the FS isn't faithful to the IEEE 1394 protocol and I can expect it to give me problems with my Macbook, and other computers I might use it with.

All Firewire interface companies will suggest (and some will even require) the use of certain Firewire chipsets. RME does, MOTU does, and so do many of the other interface companies. It's like Engine companies requiring specific oil for certain engine models. If you use the wrong oil, the engine could perform under spec, and may not even work at all.


Guess who will win that debate - not Presonus.


3. I'm going to buy a new computer, because my Macbook isn't faithful to the IEEE 1394 protocol and I can expect it to give me problems with my FS, and other interfaces I might use it with.

It's a shame that Apple is trying to cut costs with the Macbooks. Many people have relied on those laptops for audio recording for years. We're still trying to confirm the issues with Agere chipset, as it doesn't always affect the interfaces and it can be random.
Hopefully Apple will give our developers more insight into the situation with those chipsets. Until then, I'd watch out for the Agere firewire connections.

OK, I'm looking for honest advice as to what to do. There is a slim chance that I can return my FSP - I'm a little over 30 days right now, maybe the retailer will bend their policy due to the circumstances.

There's essentially no chance of getting a different MacBook that does not have the Agere chipset.

If the "crackle of doom" can't be fixed, please tell me and everyone else, so we can move on.

[egold]

Tim you need to make your own decision on what to do. I would of loved for my FSP to work. I bought it for 399 using my 20% off at GC, they were even nice enough to sell it to me the wed. before thanksgiving. I had thought about keeping it waiting until new drivers came out, I got nervous reading the threads and talking to tech support not to mention not being able to use it. Im sure at least I could of sold it on ebay for what I paid for it but, opted out.
I feel if they do work out the bugs I can always sell the alesis if I really want to and buy the FSP for now Im liking this alesis.

Good luck with your decision

[syd]

"All Firewire interface companies will suggest (and some will even require) the use of certain Firewire chipsets. RME does, MOTU does, and so do many of the other interface companies. It's like Engine companies requiring specific oil for certain engine models. If you use the wrong oil, the engine could perform under spec, and may not even work at all."

Ben, thanks for being straight about it. I'm sure we all appreciate your candor. I'm pretty confident that Apple is the problem here, since it isn't just one company having problems, but it isn't really fair to paint this like I spent $2000+ in order to find out that I'm stupid...that I'm using the wrong oil, like an idiot. If it's really that simple, you seriously need to update your page here, so that people don't take these minimum system requirements as the final word on compatibility....
http://www.presonus.com/firestudio-specs.html